MiG-23MF/UB/BN [Déclassés]

[T800]

les derniers BN volaient encore en 2005/2006 si j'ai bonne mémoire ( c'est l 'année ou une firme Bulgare avaient reparé des R-35-300 pour l'AAF si je me souviens bien )

[inconnu]

Yep, je crois qu'ils les ont sorti en 2007-2008 quand les Flanker sont arrivés

[Général-Major]

Concernant le retrait du service, Cooper indique : 2002 pour les mig-21 et 2005 pour les mig-23 avec la disparition officielle du type en 2008

[T800]

Concernant le retrait du service, Cooper indique : 2002 pour les mig-21 et 2005 pour les mig-23 avec la disparition officielle du type en 2008

j'ai des sources qui me disent que le dernier Fishbed de l'AAF a été retiré du service en 2008

[FULCRUM]

Dernier vol du MiG-21 en 2001, retrait officiel en 2003.
Retrait officiel des MiG-23 en 2006, plus aucun n'a volé ensuite. Question satisfaction oui et non, cet avion était avant tout un cauchemar pour la maintenance et peu fiable même s'il était bien comme bombardier le BN.

Il y avait bien 4 MiG-23MF à Bousfer, ils n'ont pas volés longtemps, ils les ont mis dans des hangars et abandonnés.

[DarkSideoftheMoon]

ce pourrait être une explication de la retraite quelque peu précipitée des MIG-23?

How Egypt Ruined the MiG-23 and Compromised Soviet Aerial Warfare Capabilities: President Anwar Sadat's Cold War Betrayal

Following the overthrow of its Western aligned monarchy in 1952 Egypt emerged as a leading client for Soviet armaments, acquiring 80 MiG-15 fighters and 30 IL-28 bombers in an initial batch of purchases made in 1955 alongside equipment for the country's ground forces such as T-34 and IS-3 tanks and a range of artillery and armoured transports. This single purchase accounted for 85 percent of all weaponry shipped to the Middle East in the five year period from 1951-1956, and when supplemented with Soviet training it quickly turned the country into a leading military power unrivalled among African or Arab states. Egypt would subsequently receive new generations of combat jets, which for its Air Force included newer MiG-17, MiG-19 and MiG-21 fighters, Su-17 strike fighters and Tu-16 medium bombers - providing it with one of the most capable air wings in the world.

[Egyptian Chief of Staff Saad Al Shazly ]
Egyptian Chief of Staff Saad Al Shazly

Egypt was able to afford this massive arsenal due largely to Soviet aid, regarding which the chief of staff of the Egyptian armed forces Saad Al Shazly noted in his memoirs:

"The Soviets have been as generous to the Arabs in price as they have been in quantity. Soviet weapons are cheap anyway: about half the price of their nearest Western equivalents. In addition, the Soviets offer munificent repayment terms, especially to countries in real need. Commonly, the Soviets will write off half the purchase price and give a loan for the remainder at perhaps two percent interest a year, with a grace period of three to seven years and repayment over a further 15 years."

Much of this debt would be forgiven, meaning weapons were provided almost free of charge. Despite this generous aid, which provided a very considerable material advantage both quantitatively and qualitatively, Egyptian forces notably failed repeatedly to effectively engage neighbouring Israel in multiple conflicts in the 20 years after 1955 - an issue which only worsened after Soviet military advisors were expelled from the country in 1972.

[Soviet-built Tu-16 Bombers in the Egyptian Air Force ]
Soviet-built Tu-16 Bombers in the Egyptian Air Force

Despite signs of the beginnings of an anti-Soviet policy from Egypt's new President Anwar Sadat, who assumed power in 1970 after the death of his strongly Soviet aligned predecessor Gamal Abdel Nasser, the USSR continued to provide Egypt with state of the art armaments both to prepare for the Yom Kippur War in October 1973 and afterwards to further bolster its defences. While Egypt's material advantage in the field was overwhelming during the war, poor tactics due to political interventions by the president in military planning ultimately led to an Egyptian defeat. Seeking new combat jets which could better contest air superiority against Israeli F-4E Phantoms, Egypt was provided with the Soviet MiG-23 Flogger - a new third generation swept wing design which could outperform the F-4. The fighter integrated a new generation of sensors and air to air missiles, and Egypt was the second country after Syria to receive the jets. The first unit was operational before the end of 1974.

Ultimately the MiG-23 represented part of the last major arms delivery to Egypt from the Soviet Union, with the country's new president adopting a strongly westphalian position, pivoting to the Western Bloc and downgrading diplomatic and defence ties with Moscow. While Egypt was expected to have been a leading client for new MiG-23 variants then under development, and for new more capable jets which would soon afterwards be offered for export such as the MiG-25 and MiG-29, its defection to the Western Bloc would leave remaining Soviet partners in the region such as Libya and Syria in a far weaker position. The Anwar Sadat government would further go on to undermine Soviet and allied interests by providing the MiG-23 to the United States.

[Syrian Air Force MiG-23]
Syrian Air Force MiG-23

Chief of Staff Saad Al Shazly, who was subsequently removed from his position and exiled by the Sadat government, stated in his memoirs regarding Egypt's role in compromising Soviet weapons technologies including the MiG-23 and the new 2K12 KuB air defence system:

"The Soviet Union supplies its weapons subject only to two conditions: that they not be used against Soviet interests, and that their secrets be preserved. For reasons already given, the Soviet Union considers that the struggle against Israel is in its interests. And the insistence upon security reflects the fact that the Soviet Union supplies to the Arabs virtually the same weapons that it relies upon for its own security and that of its allies in Europe. In that regard, we may expect the Soviets to be in the future a good deal more demanding in their security requirements after the betrayal by Sadat. When he broke with the Soviets in 1974, Sadat put all the sophisticated Soviet weaponry Egypt’s armed forces possessed at the disposal of America.

The damage this did to the Arab cause was incalculable; its effects will be felt for years. When reports began to surface in the late 1970s that Sadat had even delivered four MiG-23 fighter aircraft to the United States, they were indignantly denied in Egypt. On 26 April 1984, the death of U.S. Air Force General Robert Bond while piloting a MiG-23 confirmed the secret that even Sadat had been ashamed to confess. But of course the result of his betrayal has been, and for years to come will be, not American but Arab deaths. The success of the Israeli Air Force in destroying 18 Syrian battalions of the Soviet made SAM-6 [2K12 Kub – the most advanced air defence system deployed in the Yom Kippur War] anti-aircraft missiles in Lebanon in June 1982, a victory which opened the door to Israel’s slaughter in Lebanon, was possible only because American experts had passed to Israel the results of their long study of those missiles, courtesy of Sadat, and their perfection of electronic counter-measures to defeat them."

[North Korean MiG-23 Fighters ]
North Korean MiG-23 Fighters

The consequences of Egypt's passing on MiG-23 fighters to the United States, a state of the art fighter which had barely begun to enter service, went well beyond the Middle East. The fighters were deployed by a range of operators, from Cuban air units in Latin America and Angola to North Korean and Vietnamese air units in East Asia as well as the Warsaw Pact nations and the Soviet Union itself. The defences of all these parties among others were seriously undermined by the actions of the new Egyptian leadership. The MiG-23 was a potentially formidable design, with its powerful Khatchaturov R-35-300 engine putting out the same amount of thrust as the F110 powering American F-15 and F-16 fighters which gave the lighter Flogger an extremely high thrust/weight ratio. Although suffering from overcomplexity and high maintenance requirements, and on earlier variants from limited situational awareness at close ranges, the fighter had the potential to perform much better as the design was further upgraded had the program not faced a serious compromise so early on. The MiG-23 remains in service in large numbers today in Russian reserve units, and enhanced variants are deployed by a number of former Soviet defence clients such as Syria, North Korea and Ethiopia.

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/artic ... r-betrayal

[PhantomII]

Les seuls MiG-23 presents en Egypte étaient des MiG-23 MS ( radar du MiG-21 Bis, missile R-13 et aucune capacité BVR) donc rien à voir avec les MF que nous utlisions.

Les MiG-23 égyptiens ont été envoyés aux Etats-unis comme une partie du paiement de leur F-4 Phantom.

Tout cette histoire s'est déroulée juste après les accords de Camp David et n'a eu aucune incidence sur notre utilisation de cet appareil reçu en 1978 et déclassé après plus de 25 ans de service, donc je ne vois pas ou est la "retraite anticipée".

[T800]

En plus les Américains et leurs alliés ont mit la main sur des centaines de Mig 23 a partir de 1991 a la chute de l URSS sans compter les défections Syriennes , Irakiennes ou Libyennes des années 70 et 80

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USAF_Mig-23_Carlisle.JPG

[inconnu]

Y a aussi un syrien qui a fait défection vers Israël avec un MF fin des années 80 (ou bien un ML je m'en souviens plus) je crois que c'est celui que tu as mis en photo T-800

[T800]

Y a aussi un syrien qui a fait défection vers Israël avec un MF fin des années 80 (ou bien un ML je m'en souviens plus) je crois que c'est celui que tu as mis en photo T-800

c'etait en 1989

https://theaviationgeekclub.com/how-the ... d-the-iaf/

[PhantomII]

Si on suit ce raisonnement pourquoi ne pas parler des autres ?

Le 16 aout 1966 un MiG-21 Irakien déserteur se pose sur une base israélienne.

Le 12 Aout 1968 deux MiG-17 Syriens font une erreur de navigation et se posent en Israël

Le 6 septembre 1976, Belenko pose son MiG-25 au Japon

La mise a la retraite des MiG-23 est due à l'obsolescence de l'appareil, le fait que l'ouest ait pu récupérer un MS, un BN et un ML n'y est pour rien, il est resté en service dans nos forces aériennes plus longtemps que le MiG-21 F-13 et le MIG-21 PF qui eux mêmes ont été déclassés pour la même cause...

[FULCRUM]

C'est vrai qu'il n y a aucune relation avec ces défections et le retrait de ces avions chez l'AAF. Par contre la défection de Belenko a poussée les soviet a vendre le 25 normalement mais là ou eux avaient des radar Saphir-25, les versions exports n'étaient que des P avec radar Smerch-2A et sans IRST. Nos premiers 25 étaient des P comme le FU-41.

[PhantomII]

C'est vrai qu'il n y a aucune relation avec ces défections et le retrait de ces avions chez l'AAF. Par contre la défection de Belenko a poussée les soviet a vendre le 25 normalement mais là ou eux avaient des radar Saphir-25, les versions exports n'étaient que des P avec radar Smerch-2A et sans IRST. Nos premiers 25 étaient des P comme le FU-41.

Oui c'est très exact, c'est la défection de Belenko qui a entraîné la mise sur le marché du MiG-25 et aussi qui a poussé les Russes à développer les versions PD et PDS.

[T800]

je reposte ici

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[algerie]

Salah TOUIL Pilote Mig-17 & Mig-21 et Mig-23

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