F-22 Raptor

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Youma
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F-22 Raptor

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F-22 Fighter Loses $79 Billion Advantage in Dogfights: Report

By Lee Ferran | ABC News – Mon, Jul 30, 2012

The United States has spent nearly $80 billion to develop the most advanced stealth fighter jet in history, the F-22 Raptor, but the Air Force recently found out firsthand that while the planes own the skies at modern long-range air combat, it is "evenly matched" with cheaper, foreign jets when it comes to old-school dogfighting.

The F-22 made its debut at the international Red Flag Alaska training exercise this June where the planes "cleared the skies of simulated enemy forces and provided security for Australian, German, Japanese, Polish and [NATO] aircraft," according to an after-action public report by the Air Force. The F-22 took part in the exercise while under strict flying restrictions imposed by Defense Secretary Leon Panetta in light of mysterious, potentially deadly oxygen problems with the planes - problems that the Pentagon believes it has since solved...

http://news.yahoo.com/f-22-fighter-lose ... ories.html
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Re: F-22 Raptor

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How to Defeat the Air Force’s Powerful Stealth Fighter

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The fast, stealthy F-22 Raptor is “unquestionably” the best air-to-air fighter in the arsenal of the world’s leading air force. That’s what outgoing Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. Norton Schwartz wrote in 2009.

Three years later, a contingent of German pilots flying their latest Typhoon fighter have figured out how to shoot down the Lockheed Martin-made F-22 in mock combat. The Germans’ tactics, revealed in the latest Combat Aircraft magazine, represent the latest reality check for the $400-million-a-copy F-22, following dozens of pilot blackouts, and possibly a crash, reportedly related to problems with the unique g-force-defying vests worn by Raptor pilots.

In mid-June, 150 German airmen and eight twin-engine, non-stealthy Typhoons arrived at Eielson Air Force Base in Alaska for an American-led Red Flag exercise involving more than 100 aircraft from Germany, the U.S. Air Force and Army, NATO, Japan, Australia and Poland. Eight times during the two-week war game, individual German Typhoons flew against single F-22s in basic fighter maneuvers meant to simulate a close-range dogfight.

The results were a surprise to the Germans and presumably the Americans, too. “We were evenly matched,” Maj. Marc Gruene told Combat Aircraft’s Jamie Hunter. The key, Gruene said, is to get as close as possible to the F-22 … and stay there. “They didn’t expect us to turn so aggressively.”

Gruene said the Raptor excels at fighting from beyond visual range with its high speed and altitude, sophisticated radar and long-range AMRAAM missiles. But in a slower, close-range tangle — which pilots call a “merge” — the bigger and heavier F-22 is at a disadvantage. “As soon as you get to the merge … the Typhoon doesn’t necessarily have to fear the F-22,” Gruene said.


This is not supposed to be the sort of reaction the F-22 inspires. For years the Air Force has billed the Raptor as an unparalleled aerial combatant. Even former Defense Secretary Robert Gates, who in 2009 famously cut F-22 production to just 187 copies, called the stealth jet “far and away the best air-to-air fighter ever produced” and predicted “it will ensure U.S. command of the skies for the next generation.” And it’s slowly getting taken off the probation it incurred after seemingly suffocating pilots.

Admittedly, advanced air forces plan to do most of their fighting at long range and avoid the risky, close-in tangle — something Gruene acknowledged in his comments to Combat Aircraft. But there’s evidence that, in reality, most air combat occurs at close distance, despite air arms’ wishful thinking. That could bode poorly for the F-22′s chances in a future conflict.

In a 2008 study (big file!), the Air Force-funded think tank RAND warned against assuming long-range missiles will work. RAND looked at 588 air-to-air shoot-downs since the 1950s and counted just 24 that occurred with the attacker firing from beyond visual range. Historically, American long-range air-to-air missiles have been 90-percent less effective than predicted, RAND asserted.

Despite the historical facts, there persists in Air Force circles “a hypothetical vision of ultra-long range, radar-based, air-to-air combat,” to quote air power skeptic Pierre Sprey, co-designer of the brute-simple F-16 and A-10 warplanes.

It remains to be seen whether the Raptor and its AMRAAM missiles can reverse these trends. If long-range tactics fail, the F-22 force could very well find itself fighting up close with the latest fighters from China, Russia and other rival nations. And if the Germans’ experience is any indication, that’s the kind of battle the vaunted F-22s just might lose.
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/07/f-22-germans/
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geronimo
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Re: F-22 Raptor

Message par geronimo »

Je ne vois aucun avenir pour le Raptor un mort ne :koi:
:algerie01: :algerie01: :algerie01:
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Re: F-22 Raptor

Message par dil@w »

je suis d'accord avec toi Geronimo, pour l'instant c'est un avion inoperationnel pour moi, jusqu’à présent il est surveillé comme le lait sur le feu pas seulement a cause des déboires dû à l'hypoxie de ses pilotes mais surtout à cause du prix extrêmement élevé qu'ils ont réussi a faire passer au bénéfice de sa "supériorité absolue" sur tout autre chasseur, si jamais cet argument tombe au cours d'un engagement quelconque s'en est fini du super-chasseur et des comptes devront être rendus car des commissions d’enquête il y en aura du côté du congrès.
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dil@w
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Re: F-22 Raptor

Message par dil@w »

Photos d'Eurofighters Typhoons allemands tueurs de Raptors :diable1:
des articles précédents ont déjà rapporté la nouvelle de la "vulnerabilité" du Raptor au dogfight vis a vis du Typhoon lors du Red Flag en Alaska, je vous propose les photos de Typhoons portant fierement :sarca1: les kills réussis
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bien sûr ceci ne permet pas de dire tel ou tel avion est meilleur qu'un autre, car ça dépend de beaucoup de paramètres mais que ça fait du bien de fermer le clapet des US sur la "supériorité absolue" du F-22 sur tout autre avion de chasse :lol!:
http://theaviationist.com/2012/07/23/f- ... -markings/
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Re: F-22 Raptor

Message par dil@w »

La femme du pilote de F-22 mort en Alaska porte plainte contre Lockheed Martin et Boeing

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Capt. Jeff Haney was killed Nov. 16, 2010 shortly after his fighter plane, an F-22 Raptor, suffered a critical malfunction. He and his wife, Anna, had two young daughters.
Defense contracting giants Lockheed Martin and Boeing have settled a wrongful death lawsuit leveled against them by the widow of an F-22 fighter pilot killed in a crash shortly after his plane malfunctioned, a Boeing spokesperson said.

The settlement, first reported by Flight Global, is the culmination of a suit filed in March against Lockheed Martin, Boeing and other major defense contractors involved in the plane's production by Anna Haney, the widow of Capt. Jeff Haney. Anna Haney accused the contractors of knowingly providing the Air Force a "dangerous" and "defective" aircraft.

"The matter has settled and the settlement terms are confidential," a Boeing spokesperson told ABC News. The spokesperson declined to comment further.

Capt. Haney, father of two young girls, had just completed a routine training mission in Alaska in November 2010 when his F-22 malfunctioned and cut off his oxygen. The plane went into a dive and, about a minute later, slammed into the winter wilderness at faster than the speed of sound.

After a months-long investigation, the Air Force released a report claiming "by clear and convincing evidence" that Haney was to blame for the crash because he was essentially too distracted by his inability to breathe to fly the plane properly. :affraid: :parano1:

The Air Force said they did not believe Haney was unconscious due to lack of oxygen at any point in his ordeal -- a claim strongly disputed by his family and questioned by other F-22 pilots, aviation experts and the Pentagon's own Inspector General, who has launched a rare review of the Air Force investigation. Haney's family said it was more likely he had passed out due to lack of oxygen at least part of the time and, therefore, could not be held responsible for the crash.

"I'd like to think it's easier to blame Jeff. He's not here to defend himself," Jennifer Haney, Capt. Jeff Haney's sister and family spokesperson, told ABC News in an exclusive interview in May. "To them, Jeff was a number, it feels like sometimes. But those jets are worth a lot of money."

READ: Exclusive: Family Demands Truth in Air Force F-22 Pilot's Death

Jeff Haney's wife, Anna, filed a wrongful death lawsuit against Lockheed Martin and other contractors involved in making the plane in March, charging that they were allowed full "latitude" in the details of the plane's design and were therefore responsible for the mishap that took Haney's life.

Lockheed Martin said at the time the lawsuit was filed that while Jeff Haney's death was a tragedy, the company disagreed with his widow's claims and would fight them in court. A Lockheed Martin spokesperson did not immediately respond to requests for comment on this report.

The F-22 Raptor, America's most expensive fighter jet at $420 million-a-piece, was the subject of an ABC News "Nightline" investigation after on more than two dozen occasions pilots reported experiencing the symptoms of oxygen deprivation in mid-air. In one instance, a pilot apparently became so disoriented that he flew down and skimmed treetops before righting the aircraft and saving himself.

The Air Force recently claimed to have solved the potentially deadly F-22 conundrum and maintains it was wholly separate from the malfunction that hit Haney's plane before his crash.

Despite going combat operational in late 2005, not one plane in the $79 billion fleet has been sent into combat. From Iraq and Afghanistan to last year's "no-fly zone" over Libya, the Air Force said the sophisticated stealth fighters simply weren't necessary. :lol!:

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/lockheed- ... Cu3RqkaN3z
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boutaleb
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F 22 RAPTOR

Message par boutaleb »

un F22 RAPTOR vient a crashé hier en floride c'est le deuxieme appareil perdu ce que va alimenter d'aventage le debat sur cet appareil
http://news.yahoo.com/f-22-fighter-cras ... 37884.html
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Re: F 22 RAPTOR

Message par scorpion-rouge35 »

des accident ça arrive
THE ALGERIAN ARMY

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geronimo
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Re: F 22 RAPTOR

Message par geronimo »

scorpion-rouge35 a écrit :des accident ça arrive
surtout un nouveau vecteur avec la plus haute technologie Ça arrive un accident mon ami
:algerie01: :algerie01: :algerie01:
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goulak75
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Re: F 22 RAPTOR

Message par goulak75 »

USAF photos du F-22 qui s'est écrasé communiqués par USAF

L'US Air Force a publié ses premières images de l'épave d'un Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor qui s'est écrasé à la base aérienne Tyndall, en Floride, le 15 Novembre, est une enquête sur la cause de l'accident se poursuit.

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http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... 22-379190/
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sadral
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Re: F-22 Raptor

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« Une page est tournée ; l'Algérie est d'abord fille de son histoire, qu'elle ait surmonté l'épreuve coloniale et même défié l'éclipse, atteste, s'il en était besoin, de cette volonté inextinguible de vivre sans laquelle les peuples sont menacés parfois de disparition.
L'ornière qui nous a contraints à croupir dans l'existence végétative des asphyxies mortelles nous imposa de nous replier sur nous-mêmes dans l'attente et la préparation d'un réveil et d'un sursaut qui ne pouvaient se faire, hélas ! que dans la souffrance et dans le sang. La France, elle-même, a connu de ces disgrâces et de ces résurrections. » Le président Houari Boumediene.

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Re: F-22 Raptor

Message par Rebell »

A VOIR documentaire intéressant sur les conflit future et la technologie des future chasseur..

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anzar
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Re: F-22 Raptor

Message par anzar »

De la pure connerie :!: Un docu-propagande avec zéro réalisme ew toz
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Amine Ind
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Re: F-22 Raptor

Message par Amine Ind »

anzar a écrit :De la pure connerie :!: Un docu-propagande avec zéro réalisme ew toz
Surtout qu'il arrive a shooter tous les chasseurs Rafale, Sukhoi, Mig etc.. :face: Quelque soit le nombre en face par le seul argument du docu "c'est américain et le reste c'est de la merde"..
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Re: F-22 Raptor

Message par Rebell »

je me disait aussi..car on voyant les mig-29 au début tité je sais pas combien de missile et raté leur cible qui était un hélico presque immobile sa m'a fait rire..apre c'est bien il on de la techno mais je trouve sa trop propagandiste qu'il on perdu aucun chasseur surtout lorsque le f-35 (qui avais un missile coincé) était la cible des mig-35 et des S-300 et qui a réussie a s'en sortir on les detruison tous..n’empêche il on raison sur une chose les chasseur de 5G parte avec un avantage certain sur leur adversaire
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